Doom 3 ships today
- Thread starter it290
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http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/doom3/index.html
Gamespot's review seems to describe what I was expecting. To anyone that has it is, is the game 8.5 material, or perfect 10 work of art material like the previews suggested?
Gamespot's review seems to describe what I was expecting. To anyone that has it is, is the game 8.5 material, or perfect 10 work of art material like the previews suggested?
I'd give it at least a 9, maybe higher. There are only three things that in my mind detract from the game:
1. Some of the areas are a bit monotonous - this is to be expected given the setting the game takes place in, and it didn't personally bother me very much (because the combat is so fun).
2. It's obvious that the engine is capable of so much more (this isn't the fault of the game though, people's computers wouldn't be able to handle the engine doing everything it can do).
3. The multiplayer is pretty unpolished (although I'm sure this will be fixed in the future).
I have to disagree with Iceman's comment though- this game is best played at night! In fact, they tell you to do so.
1. Some of the areas are a bit monotonous - this is to be expected given the setting the game takes place in, and it didn't personally bother me very much (because the combat is so fun).
2. It's obvious that the engine is capable of so much more (this isn't the fault of the game though, people's computers wouldn't be able to handle the engine doing everything it can do).
3. The multiplayer is pretty unpolished (although I'm sure this will be fixed in the future).
I have to disagree with Iceman's comment though- this game is best played at night! In fact, they tell you to do so.
I'm playing through it (normal) ATM and I've got to say I'm a little disappointed. Here's a whinge list:
a) This game is dark. Too dark. You can't see anything or make out any significant details. The much vaunted realistic lighting model is wasted because most of the game is dark. Even cranking the brightness and the gamma (through the console) helps little.
b) The enemies are dumb dumb dumb. The don't follow you through doors, they only have a couple of routine "evade" procedures that are easily guessable.
c) The weapons have an irritatingly long reload cycle and the auto-reload function doesn't work until you try to shoot again after your clip has run out. Weapon sound effects are weak too.
d) The actual environments are lacking in detail. The textures are great, but in terms of interesting geometry and fantastic looking set-pieces, there is a lot of boring architecture. They environments are also tiny, it's (so far) strictly a room-per-room sweep with little sense of either being or going somewhere.
e) Little or no interaction with the environment. Glass does not break, monitors do not shatter and lights are invulnerable. Except where it is scripted, your weapons have little or no effect on the environment.
f) Damage is way out of proportion. The number of times your character can be hit is insane. Also, it sometimes seems like there is a health pack or armour rechage around every corner. I'm yet to run out of armour (or die for that matter) - I've even passed up the chance to pick up armour on more than one occasion because it was full.
g) When you are hit by enemy fire, your aim is thrown and your vision impared. This sometimes makes it frustratingly difficult to finish off basic enemies. Coupled with point c), it makes me feel like you are getting hit "artificially" - to make it seem more challenging than it is. I guess this is why your hitpoints are so high.
h) Because of many of the points above (particularly f), you lose your fear of the monsters. You learn their patterns and the hints of their appearance. For a game like Doom 3, this is bad.
It runs well on my machine (2500+, 9800 Pro - make sure you get the latest drivers Cat 4.7, or 4.9 beta), but I just feel that the game is far too derivitive and unimpressive. Graphically, it might be great but too often you can't see what's happening. To be honest, I felt Far Cry looked and played better in many respects - it even does suspense better because you feel vulnerable. I fear that the engine won't be good for the modding community either, as it appears to be highly optimised for close corridor gameplay and minimal interactivity. I'll give it a provisional score of 6 for now.
a) This game is dark. Too dark. You can't see anything or make out any significant details. The much vaunted realistic lighting model is wasted because most of the game is dark. Even cranking the brightness and the gamma (through the console) helps little.
b) The enemies are dumb dumb dumb. The don't follow you through doors, they only have a couple of routine "evade" procedures that are easily guessable.
c) The weapons have an irritatingly long reload cycle and the auto-reload function doesn't work until you try to shoot again after your clip has run out. Weapon sound effects are weak too.
d) The actual environments are lacking in detail. The textures are great, but in terms of interesting geometry and fantastic looking set-pieces, there is a lot of boring architecture. They environments are also tiny, it's (so far) strictly a room-per-room sweep with little sense of either being or going somewhere.
e) Little or no interaction with the environment. Glass does not break, monitors do not shatter and lights are invulnerable. Except where it is scripted, your weapons have little or no effect on the environment.
f) Damage is way out of proportion. The number of times your character can be hit is insane. Also, it sometimes seems like there is a health pack or armour rechage around every corner. I'm yet to run out of armour (or die for that matter) - I've even passed up the chance to pick up armour on more than one occasion because it was full.
g) When you are hit by enemy fire, your aim is thrown and your vision impared. This sometimes makes it frustratingly difficult to finish off basic enemies. Coupled with point c), it makes me feel like you are getting hit "artificially" - to make it seem more challenging than it is. I guess this is why your hitpoints are so high.
h) Because of many of the points above (particularly f), you lose your fear of the monsters. You learn their patterns and the hints of their appearance. For a game like Doom 3, this is bad.
It runs well on my machine (2500+, 9800 Pro - make sure you get the latest drivers Cat 4.7, or 4.9 beta), but I just feel that the game is far too derivitive and unimpressive. Graphically, it might be great but too often you can't see what's happening. To be honest, I felt Far Cry looked and played better in many respects - it even does suspense better because you feel vulnerable. I fear that the engine won't be good for the modding community either, as it appears to be highly optimised for close corridor gameplay and minimal interactivity. I'll give it a provisional score of 6 for now.
Hmm, I've just got to defend the game here:
Agreed, it is dark, but I thought it was just right in that respect. Personally, I tweaked the gamma and contrast settings using the ATi driver utility and got it to where it looks just right. There are quite a few well lit areas, but I feel the dark atmosphere is not only integral to the game, but also showcases the engine by using dynamic lights (ie the imp's fireballs, swinging/moving light fixtures, and quite a few other things).
Their AI is not great, I agree. But I don't think they're really supposed to be smart - they're supposed to come at you and try to kill you. They do sneak up behind you from dark corners and the like fairly often, though. It keeps you on your toes. Realistically, though, do you think some scary hell demon is going to duck behind objects and try to snipe you? No, they're going to do a frontal attack. Also, they do follow you through doors -- I don't know what you're talking about in that respect.
Again, the reload time is part of the gameplay. It adds suspense, IMHO.
Again, I can agree with you, and I definitely concur that things can get a bit monotonous at times, but I think all the moving, glowing machinery and the like is pretty cool. Also, I haven't gotten to the more 'hellish' part of the game yet, so what lies there remains to be seen. Really, though, do you expect an industrial research facility to be full of wonderful architectural design?
Agreed. The alpha actually had more stuff going on in that respect. Maybe they had to done it down for performance reasons? I expected the physics engine to be much more complex than it actually is. Although, there is a fair amount of breakable glass, and the lights are not invulnerable. In fact, just about any light will break after you shoot it a couple of times. There are a lot of moveable/shootable objects as well, although not to the degree I expected (I wanted to be able to shoot down shelves and see the contents fall off, which doesn't happen).
Yeah, normal mode is a bit easy. Try hard, it's a bit more entertaining. Also, I'm not sure where you're at in the game, but the tougher enemies come out in force later on. I haven't tried nightmare mode yet.
I like that effect, personally, but if you don't, it's possible to turn it off via the console. Although, again, realistically, don't you think that would happen if you just got swiped by a big demon?
As for point h, I agree, the enemy patterns do seem a bit predictable at times, although not always.
Regarding the engine and modding, I disagree. This game is built for modding, and you'll see lots of mods crop up shortly, I'm sure (although the netcode will need some improvements). The engine isn't 'optimized' for corridor environments -- that's just a matter of content and making the game run on a variety of computers. Just as with every iD game in the past, you'll see mods with bigger and more detailed environments - they'll just take more horsepower to run well. I don't think the engine will have any problems with outdoor environments at all, although you might not end up seeing levels with the scale of Far Cry or Tribes. Ditto with the physics / interactivity. The code is in the engine, and I'm sure upcoming games and mods will use it to a greater degree as time goes on.
Agreed, it is dark, but I thought it was just right in that respect. Personally, I tweaked the gamma and contrast settings using the ATi driver utility and got it to where it looks just right. There are quite a few well lit areas, but I feel the dark atmosphere is not only integral to the game, but also showcases the engine by using dynamic lights (ie the imp's fireballs, swinging/moving light fixtures, and quite a few other things).
Their AI is not great, I agree. But I don't think they're really supposed to be smart - they're supposed to come at you and try to kill you. They do sneak up behind you from dark corners and the like fairly often, though. It keeps you on your toes. Realistically, though, do you think some scary hell demon is going to duck behind objects and try to snipe you? No, they're going to do a frontal attack. Also, they do follow you through doors -- I don't know what you're talking about in that respect.
Again, the reload time is part of the gameplay. It adds suspense, IMHO.
Again, I can agree with you, and I definitely concur that things can get a bit monotonous at times, but I think all the moving, glowing machinery and the like is pretty cool. Also, I haven't gotten to the more 'hellish' part of the game yet, so what lies there remains to be seen. Really, though, do you expect an industrial research facility to be full of wonderful architectural design?
Agreed. The alpha actually had more stuff going on in that respect. Maybe they had to done it down for performance reasons? I expected the physics engine to be much more complex than it actually is. Although, there is a fair amount of breakable glass, and the lights are not invulnerable. In fact, just about any light will break after you shoot it a couple of times. There are a lot of moveable/shootable objects as well, although not to the degree I expected (I wanted to be able to shoot down shelves and see the contents fall off, which doesn't happen).
Yeah, normal mode is a bit easy. Try hard, it's a bit more entertaining. Also, I'm not sure where you're at in the game, but the tougher enemies come out in force later on. I haven't tried nightmare mode yet.
I like that effect, personally, but if you don't, it's possible to turn it off via the console. Although, again, realistically, don't you think that would happen if you just got swiped by a big demon?
As for point h, I agree, the enemy patterns do seem a bit predictable at times, although not always.
Regarding the engine and modding, I disagree. This game is built for modding, and you'll see lots of mods crop up shortly, I'm sure (although the netcode will need some improvements). The engine isn't 'optimized' for corridor environments -- that's just a matter of content and making the game run on a variety of computers. Just as with every iD game in the past, you'll see mods with bigger and more detailed environments - they'll just take more horsepower to run well. I don't think the engine will have any problems with outdoor environments at all, although you might not end up seeing levels with the scale of Far Cry or Tribes. Ditto with the physics / interactivity. The code is in the engine, and I'm sure upcoming games and mods will use it to a greater degree as time goes on.
Valid points all, it290.
I'd kind of expect the environment to be basically a clean room given that technology is supposed to be state-of-the-art and brand new.
If you want to talk realism, I'd expect to die.
Regarding my modding potential concerns, I just wonder how much of the engine was designed around the game. When I said it runs well on my machine, I'm almost suspicious that it runs too well - how much optimisation and hacking have Carmack and team done behind the scenes to get Doom 3 running well at the expense of flexibility?
Meh...I guess we'll find out in 6 months or so about the progress within the modding communty.
I'd kind of expect the environment to be basically a clean room given that technology is supposed to be state-of-the-art and brand new.
If you want to talk realism, I'd expect to die.
Regarding my modding potential concerns, I just wonder how much of the engine was designed around the game. When I said it runs well on my machine, I'm almost suspicious that it runs too well - how much optimisation and hacking have Carmack and team done behind the scenes to get Doom 3 running well at the expense of flexibility?
Meh...I guess we'll find out in 6 months or so about the progress within the modding communty.
I don't think Carmack would cut anything down at the expense of flexibility. Just look at the Quake 3 engine - it turned out to be quite versatile, moreso than you would expect after only having played Q3. Considering iD is going to be making more money from licensing the engine than from the game itself, I don't think they would do anything to prevent developers from making the games they want (within reason). Unreal Engine 3.0 looks very nice as well, but it remains to be seen which one will be the better performer (efficiency and flexibility-wise). Also, keep in mind that the spec and bump mapping features don't have to be enabled for every texture.. that will allow developers to environments with higher polycounts and more distant horizons whilst keeping performance reasonable (on current hardware).
edit - I just want to say that I really, really hope they make another Aliens vs. Predator game using this engine.
edit - I just want to say that I really, really hope they make another Aliens vs. Predator game using this engine.
Runik
Staff member
I'll add a few more things : the ragdoll effect is overpowered, ie when you touch a crate it almost flies over the room which is a bit annoying when you try to climb on it ...
The gameplay is really repetitive (and boring) : the same demon apparition pattern is used over and over, leading to an almost unexistant fear ...
I think the first 15 minutes are really good, the ambiance is great, but it decreases fastly ...
But sometimes it really feels like being in Aliens, so I want an AvP 3 with that engine too
I think I'm not far of the end, I saw hell (huge beasts in there), and now I'm trying to destroy a human tank with a BFG 9000 who keeps kicking my ass
Anyway, I played (and finished) FarCry too, and I enjoyed it way more than Doom 3 : the storyline was good, sometimes you get really scared (without trying to do it at every corner), the tempo increases crescendo, and the AI is great
The gameplay is really repetitive (and boring) : the same demon apparition pattern is used over and over, leading to an almost unexistant fear ...
I think the first 15 minutes are really good, the ambiance is great, but it decreases fastly ...
But sometimes it really feels like being in Aliens, so I want an AvP 3 with that engine too
I think I'm not far of the end, I saw hell (huge beasts in there
), and now I'm trying to destroy a human tank with a BFG 9000 who keeps kicking my ass Anyway, I played (and finished) FarCry too, and I enjoyed it way more than Doom 3 : the storyline was good, sometimes you get really scared (without trying to do it at every corner), the tempo increases crescendo, and the AI is great
thats not ragdoll, just the physics engine at work. this is the first game ive played with ragdoll and have to say it can cause some really hillarious things to happen. ive had several bodies do things they shouldnt do. i really feel until they get something to work 100% it shouldnt be implemented. and really, how many times is a body still ont he screen to even warrent ragdoll after you kill them?
anyway ive found that armor is pretty damn useless. ill have a spider clawing at my ass and im dead within 5 seconds if im against a wall. yet when im dead i still have 90 armor. WTF....and WTH good is it doing me?
Armor reduces the amount of damage you take per hit... that is, the more armor you have, the less will be taken out of your health for any given hit. But let's say you have full armor and you get hit by the spider twenty times - you're still going to take half damage or so out of your health, which means you can run out before you're out of armor. But, say you have 125 armor and 30 health - you'll probably be able to survive a couple of hits from an imp fireball or the like, whereas with 30 health and 0 armor you'll be out a lot faster.
edit - btw with the spiders/trites just pop 'em a couple of times with the pistol -- two shots is all it takes and I find it works better than trying to take out a swarm with the machine gun or the shotty.
edit - btw with the spiders/trites just pop 'em a couple of times with the pistol -- two shots is all it takes and I find it works better than trying to take out a swarm with the machine gun or the shotty.
OK, I (think) I've nearly finished it. I've been to hell and back, at least.
My opinion has been revised upwards, but not by much. Some lights and glass objects are breakable, but others are inexplicably not. The enemy does follow me through the levels (and doors), but often in rather stupid ways. Possibly what upsets me the most now is the general linearity of the game - I've only been "lost" once, and even then I wasn't really lost - it was just a poor teleporter choice. Who would have though hell would have been so well structured?
Other irritations are:
a) Monsters you can't dodge. Those "super trooper" thingies with the whip arms are guaranteed to hit you atleast once or twice while you are trying to kill them. No amount of skill allows you to dodge them.
b) Stupid manical laughter/whispered "threats" from the alleged villan. That's sooo 1990's.
c) The allegedly funny emails and voice recordings you find - particularly the "sacrificial tips" email. They just detract from the atmosphere that they've tried to create.
d) The derivitive nature of the gameplay. Some things are just blatant rips from other games - the very first level (find the commander) is straight from Halo and Hell is just a rip of the "alien" Half Life levels (complete with teleportation thingies).
e) The game engine. I know this will be a controversial one, but I don't think the engine is particularly impressive. Prior to release, John Carmack would talk up the photorealistic qualities of the engine and how much that would affect gameplay. When it arrives we still get no reflected or ambient light at all - shadows are horrible and totally pitch black. We've been seeing effects like this for over a year in games like Splinter Cell. To add to that, the lighting or lack thereof makes no difference to the gameplay - the monster are always aware of you, lighting be damned. The only thing that Carmack brings to the table is quality bumb-mapping at high speeds and I suspect that the CryEngine could do a pretty good version of Doom.
Most of what Doom does graphically is simply a reflection of what modern video hardware can do these days rather than an impressive display of new technology.
My opinion has been revised upwards, but not by much. Some lights and glass objects are breakable, but others are inexplicably not. The enemy does follow me through the levels (and doors), but often in rather stupid ways. Possibly what upsets me the most now is the general linearity of the game - I've only been "lost" once, and even then I wasn't really lost - it was just a poor teleporter choice. Who would have though hell would have been so well structured?
Other irritations are:
a) Monsters you can't dodge. Those "super trooper" thingies with the whip arms are guaranteed to hit you atleast once or twice while you are trying to kill them. No amount of skill allows you to dodge them.
b) Stupid manical laughter/whispered "threats" from the alleged villan. That's sooo 1990's.
c) The allegedly funny emails and voice recordings you find - particularly the "sacrificial tips" email. They just detract from the atmosphere that they've tried to create.
d) The derivitive nature of the gameplay. Some things are just blatant rips from other games - the very first level (find the commander) is straight from Halo and Hell is just a rip of the "alien" Half Life levels (complete with teleportation thingies).
e) The game engine. I know this will be a controversial one, but I don't think the engine is particularly impressive. Prior to release, John Carmack would talk up the photorealistic qualities of the engine and how much that would affect gameplay. When it arrives we still get no reflected or ambient light at all - shadows are horrible and totally pitch black. We've been seeing effects like this for over a year in games like Splinter Cell. To add to that, the lighting or lack thereof makes no difference to the gameplay - the monster are always aware of you, lighting be damned. The only thing that Carmack brings to the table is quality bumb-mapping at high speeds and I suspect that the CryEngine could do a pretty good version of Doom.
Most of what Doom does graphically is simply a reflection of what modern video hardware can do these days rather than an impressive display of new technology.
Runik
Staff member
Hell isn't close to the end
I've finished the game, and you still have huge things to blast
Have you defeated the Sarge yet ?
For the whip things, if you crouch when they are closing to you, you will dodge the whip. After that they will try to kick you on the ground, but if you're fast enough you won't get hurt at all
I've finished the game, and you still have huge things to blast
Have you defeated the Sarge yet ?
For the whip things, if you crouch when they are closing to you, you will dodge the whip. After that they will try to kick you on the ground, but if you're fast enough you won't get hurt at all
