What the PS2 can do

[Des-ROW]

Originally posted by Berty@Thu, 2004-11-04 @ 10:04 AM

Luckily someone came to your rescue.

Take a look at this though,

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic....=asc&highlight=

i decided to hold the poll in neutral territory for your sake. I am will to furhter test any of your hypothosees there. But i have my imperical data.

AHAHAHAHAHA~!

People vote arcade because they like the arcade EXPERIENCE, and not because of some "technical flaw" of the PlayStation2 hardware/version. What about all that "technical" details you like to talk about? Hmmm... people came to backup me, because they know I am right, and you are wrong.

My hypothesis? What are you talking about?

Berty, you are wrong, about the PCB vs Port argument, and also about the SH-4 vs EE argument.

 

[Berty]

Originally posted by ExCyber@Wed, 2004-11-03 @ 07:21 PM

I have no idea what you mean by this, and I've read Chapter 3 of the SH7750 manual several times.

[post=122701]Quoted post[/post]​

I am talking about the use of the "quasi" swap file that is created when using the WinCE devkit, i.e it can be configured to 1KB, 4KB, 16Kb.. up to one meg. You can implement this in code; im pretty shure that the compiler doesn't automatically configure for you then.

Technical issues asside, the fact is many 2d games that i have mentioned look like ass on the PS2. This may be a programming thing.

I am not shure about the PS2's "official" compiler, i have only used the linux programming environment and in that i have used SDL libs in C++. But couldn't the problem be with the compiler and how it interprets interger usage in the code?

 

[Berty]

Originally posted by Des-ROW@Wed, 2004-11-03 @ 08:19 PM



Berty, you are wrong, about the PCB vs Port argument, and also about the SH-4 vs EE argument.

[post=122715]Quoted post[/post]​

You agreed though that you do prefer the cab over the ps2, don't contradict yourself.

I am not finished with the SH-4 vs EE arguement. It still remains FACT that capcom prefer to develop for the SH-4. It is also FACT that the games that i have mentioned before do look better on other systems, you cannot be so blind as to disagree with that.

besides you are the one that is always going on about a perfect intrepation of the arcade game? so why do you prefer the obviously non-original feel of KOF and MSlug on PS2 then? that seems to be another contradiction eh?

 

[mal]

I don't want to be all heavy handed, but can I please put this thread out of it's misery?

It's painful to read. Really.

 

[Berty]

i'm still waiting for a response from Des-ROW

 

[Des-ROW]

Originally posted by Berty@Thu, 2004-11-04 @ 10:23 AM

You agreed though that you do prefer the cab over the ps2, don't contradict yourself.

I am not finished with the SH-4 vs EE arguement. It still remains FACT that capcom prefer to develop for the SH-4. It is also FACT that the games that i have mentioned before do look better on other systems, you cannot be so blind as to disagree with that.

besides you are the one that is always going on about a perfect intrepation of the arcade game? so why do you prefer the obviously non-original feel of KOF and MSlug on PS2 then? that seems to be another contradiction eh?

I prefer my cab because I like the FEELING of playing a COLLECTION ITEM like a old arcade PCB, and NOT because it looks better or sounds better or WHATEVER you want to make up.

Capcom works on the NAOMI hardware because it is CHEAPER, and MORE POPULAR than the System246 hardware. Anyway, the NAOMI hardware is now dead for the AC market, and Capcom's latest AC releases are planned/developed for System246. It is all related to MARKETING, and NOT to power or ease of use.

I don't prefer the FEEL of non-originals, I prefer the IMPROVEMENTS, BETTER PERFORMANCE and PRACTICITY of ports.

No contradictions, you will only find contradictions in what you state, or what you interpret.

I still find amazing that you believe that the NAOMI and the CPS-3 hardware are more technically advanced than the PlayStation2/System246 hardware, simply and stubbornly amazing.

 

[Berty]

you say that you DON'T prefer the feel of non-originals? so based on this you do prefer the feel of the orginal; this is correct?

Have you also played the games that i have mentioned? how about you go out and do so then get back to me.

If the system 246 (legacy) proves to be more popular in the long run then the naomi, then i will apologize to you, but i sincerely feel that its days are numbered taking into consideration new systems like the naomi 2, atomiswave and to a lesser extent the PGM.

You way of repsonding to posts is very good at dodging the facts that the original arcade experience can never be duplicated on a home console. You seem to agree with this and yet ignore it at the same time. strange.

 

[Des-ROW]

Originally posted by Berty+Thu, 2004-11-04 @ 02:34 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Berty @ Thu, 2004-11-04 @ 02:34 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>you say that you DON'T prefer the feel of non-originals? so based on this you do prefer the feel of the orginal; this is correct?

[/b]

OBVIOUSLY, I prefer how PRACTICAL and CHEAP ports are, especially when TECHNICALLY they are the SAME, or sometimes BETTER. But never beats the AC feeling, alright?

Originally posted by Berty@Thu, 2004-11-04 @ 02:34 PM

Have you also played the games that i have mentioned? how about you go out and do so then get back to me.

I have several KOF games on Neo-Geo MVS, Neo-Geo AES and also on PlayStation2. I also have several Metal Slug titles on MVS, and Xbox ports as well. Oh, and Samurai Spirits Zero on both MVS and PlayStation2. Differences? The ports are cheaper, have better audio and graphics, but they don't have the arcade feeling. In other words, ports are TECHNICALLY BETTER.

Originally posted by Berty@Thu, 2004-11-04 @ 02:34 PM

If the system 246 (legacy) proves to be more popular in the long run then the naomi, then i will apologize to you, but i sincerely feel that its days are numbered taking into consideration new systems like the naomi 2, atomiswave and to a lesser extent the PGM.

Hahaha, FIRST you talked about NAOMI and CPS-3 being technically superior than System246, but now *magically* you are talking about popularity? Talk about dodging the subject.

<!--QuoteBegin-Berty@Thu, 2004-11-04 @ 02:34 PM

You way of repsonding to posts is very good at dodging the facts that the original arcade experience can never be duplicated on a home console. You seem to agree with this and yet ignore it at the same time. strange.

[/quote]

You are so funny, all of a sudden, you aren't talking about how technically superior certain platform is compared with another... now it is all about the "feeling".

Looking for something you can "win at" with this new excuses for your arguments? Come on.

 

[SkankinMonkey]

Originally posted by Des-ROW@Thu, 2004-11-04 @ 01:49 AM

OBVIOUSLY, I prefer how PRACTICAL and CHEAP ports are, especially when TECHNICALLY they are the SAME, or sometimes BETTER. But never beats the AC feeling, alright?



I have several KOF games on Neo-Geo MVS, Neo-Geo AES and also on PlayStation2. I also have several Metal Slug titles on MVS, and Xbox ports as well. Oh, and Samurai Spirits Zero on both MVS and PlayStation2. Differences? The ports are cheaper, have better audio and graphics, but they don't have the arcade feeling. In other words, ports are TECHNICALLY BETTER.



Hahaha, FIRST you talked about NAOMI and CPS-3 being technically superior than System246, but now *magically* you are talking about popularity? Talk about dodging the subject.

You are so funny, all of a sudden, you aren't talking about how technically superior certain platform is compared with another... now it is all about the "feeling".

Looking for something you can "win at" with this new excuses for your arguments? Come on.

[post=122745]Quoted post[/post]​

Do you ever do anything other than write condecsending snaps at people?

 

[Berty]

OBVIOUSLY, I prefer how PRACTICAL and CHEAP ports are, especially when TECHNICALLY they are the SAME, or sometimes BETTER. But never beats the AC feeling, alright?

agh thanks you Des-ROW, thats all you had to say.

I have several KOF games on Neo-Geo MVS, Neo-Geo AES and also on PlayStation2. I also have several Metal Slug titles on MVS, and Xbox ports as well. Oh, and Samurai Spirits Zero on both MVS and PlayStation2. Differences? The ports are cheaper, have better audio and graphics, but they don't have the arcade feeling. In other words, ports are TECHNICALLY BETTER.

i think that you mean ports are different from the originals; hence not arcade perfect arcade reproductions as you seem to believe? . Once again thanks for agreeing with me.

How about you go out and grab yourself XII Stag, Strikers 1945 1 and 2 and Steel Dragon EX, they should be a sinch for the PS2 to replicate!

Looking for something you can "win at" with this new excuses for your arguments? Come on.

nope, ive already won as you have agreed with me. thanks

 

[Des-ROW]

Hahaha, trying to get out of the whole technical talk and just sticking to the "feeling" thing? How convenient.

Remember, the SH-2 and SH-4 can do better 2D than the EE!

And also remember, feelings aren't something technical!

Most of the latest ports are not only different, they are TECHNICALLY BETTER, you know? Better sound quality, better color depth, 3D backgrounds, higher resolutions, transparencies, filtering, arranged music, etc. YES, TECHNICALLY BETTER.

Oh, and 3-4 ports being inferior than their original releases does not mean that the hardware isn't powerful enough. Those games aren't even graphic intensive.

 

[Berty]

Those games aren't even graphic intensive.

Remember, the SH-2 and SH-4 can do better 2D than the EE!

then why can't the ps2 reproduce them?

Most of the latest ports are not only different, they are TECHNICALLY BETTER, you know? Better sound quality, better color depth, 3D backgrounds, higher resolutions, transparencies, filtering, arranged music, etc. YES, TECHNICALLY BETTER

i seem to remeber you complaining about green bias on the ps2, screwy colours is far from technically better

And also remember, feelings aren't something technical!

incorrect my friend, feeling can directly be attributed to hardware timing.

Most of the latest ports are not only different

thankyou again

trying to get out of the whole technical talk and just sticking to the "feeling" thing? How convenient

not answering my questions directly, how convienient for you!

Oh, and 3-4 ports being inferior than their original releases does not mean that the hardware isn't powerful enough

if lack of feel makes them "non original" as you imply in previous statements then there are definatly more than 3-4 port which aren't original

lack of feel makes them "non-original" you even say so yourself. If you consider controller input as part of feel (which you should) then this is a technical issue in timing is it not?

 

[it290]

I have several KOF games on Neo-Geo MVS, Neo-Geo AES and also on PlayStation2. I also have several Metal Slug titles on MVS, and Xbox ports as well. Oh, and Samurai Spirits Zero on both MVS and PlayStation2. Differences? The ports are cheaper, have better audio and graphics, but they don't have the arcade feeling. In other words, ports are TECHNICALLY BETTER.

I have to disagree with this, if only because of the tendency of Neo ports to scale the graphics (sometimes with painful bilinear filtering), rather than retaining the beautiful non-interlaced display of the actual Neo hardware. When I play KOF games on my AES, I am often taken aback by the beauty of the handcrafted artwork and the vibrancy of the colors. When I play the same games on my DC, this is not the case- the graphics look objectively worse. I also don't agree with the inclusion of 3d background objects in 2d games, in most cases. However, this has nothing to do with the technical capabilities of the PS2 (or Xbox/DC), it's mainly the fault of the developers who continue this trend for some inexplicable reason (although I'm not sure if the Xbox actually even supports low-res modes).

 

[Berty]

although I'm not sure if the Xbox actually even supports low-res modes).

i think that the box version has some sort of smoothing going on like AA, kinda looks blurry, then again i've only got my xbox hooked up through standard av.

 

[Des-ROW]

Originally posted by Berty+Thu, 2004-11-04 @ 03:19 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Berty @ Thu, 2004-11-04 @ 03:19 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>then why can't the ps2 reproduce them?

[/b]

Ah? What?

Originally posted by Berty@Thu, 2004-11-04 @ 03:19 PM

i seem to remeber you complaining about green bias on the ps2, screwy colours is far from technically better

WHAT!?

Originally posted by Berty@Thu, 2004-11-04 @ 03:19 PM

incorrect my friend, feeling can directly be attributed to hardware timing.

WHAT!!??

Originally posted by Berty@Thu, 2004-11-04 @ 03:19 PM

not answering my questions directly, how convienient for you!

Again, what are you talking about?

<!--QuoteBegin-Berty@Thu, 2004-11-04 @ 03:19 PM

lack of feel makes them "non-original" you even say so yourself. If you consider controller input as part of feel (which you should) then this is a technical issue in timing is it not?

[/quote]

No, I don't consider the controller input as part of the feeling of the game. Why? Because I have great AC-style joysticks (HORI Real Arcade Pro), which are made of actual arcade parts, even with Sanwa buttons.

For example, I have a Neo-Geo AES cart of KOF98, and I also have a MVS cart of KOF98, both games are technically the same, but for some reason, playing the game in a cabinet is what makes the difference, it is a feeling, not something you can technically "measure" in any way.

Oh darling, I won so many times already.

 

[Berty]

Originally posted by Des-ROW@Thu, 2004-11-04 @ 01:30 AM

No, I don't consider the controller input as part of the feeling of the game. Why? Because I have great AC-style joysticks (HORI Real Arcade Pro), which are made of actual arcade parts, even with Sanwa buttons.

For example, I have a Neo-Geo AES cart of KOF98, and I also have a MVS cart of KOF98, both games are technically the same, but for some reason, playing the game in a cabinet is what makes the difference, it is a feeling, not something you can technically "measure" in any way.

Oh darling, I won so many times already.

[post=122754]Quoted post[/post]​

No, you mis-understand. I am talking about controller timing, not what type of controller that you are using. (there is no debate that the ps2 controller bows to the might of the HRA2)

it290, thanks for reminding me about those horrible 3d back grounds; Arcade faithful eh Des? juxtaposition such as that makes me want to puke and certainly doesn't make me want to bust out the PS2 version fo KOF

How have you won when you agree that only the arcade verison is the original and ports are non-original?

(nice work with the whats too! great way to avoid the facts, i really must try)

 

[Des-ROW]

Originally posted by Berty+Thu, 2004-11-04 @ 03:40 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Berty @ Thu, 2004-11-04 @ 03:40 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>it290, thanks for reminding me about those horrible 3d back grounds; Arcade faithful eh Des? juxtaposition such as that makes me want to puke and certainly doesn't make me want to bust out the PS2 version fo KOF

[/b]

Hahahaha, well, now you show that you seriously don't know what you are talking about. The PlayStation2 ports that feature 3D backgrounds ALSO have the original arcade ones, you can set which you want at the Options menu. The same goes for the soundtrack, you can select either AST or OST. Talk about technical advantages over the original hardware.

<!--QuoteBegin-Berty@Thu, 2004-11-04 @ 03:40 PM

How have you won when you agree that only the arcade verison is the original and ports are non-original?

(nice work with the whats too! great way to avoid the facts, i really must try)

[/quote]

This is simply stupid. Seriously. How can the port be the original? Explain. It is simply impossible.

Now, do you agree that people have the ability to breath? Just like what you stated, something extremely stupid and simply nonsense.

Regarding the "whats", I was just trying to mimic how you escaped the whole SuperH vs EE argument you were having with both antime and ExCyber.

And, let me also add (again) that saying that the PlayStation2 cannot run NAOMI, Atomiswave, Neo-Geo or CPS-3 games because of lack of system power is simply idiotic.

 

[Berty]

Hahahaha, well, now you show that you seriously don't know what you are talking about. The PlayStation2 ports that feature 3D backgrounds ALSO have the original arcade ones, you can set which you want at the Options menu. The same goes for the soundtrack, you can select either AST or OST. Talk about technical advantages over the original hardware.

go for it queen of assumptions!

lol. so if the ps2 could raytrace a turd over the top of KOF you'd be interested?

This is simply stupid. Seriously. How can the port be the original? Explain. It is simply impossible.

lol. (ill let you in on a secret, stop agreeing with me!)

Regarding the "whats", I was just trying to mimic how you escaped the whole SuperH vs EE argument you were having with both antime and ExCyber

.

hey, it worked a treat for you in dodging my questions, good to see your taking advice from other and actually implementing it. This could be a real turning point for you.

And, let me also add (again) that saying that the PlayStation2 cannot run NAOMI, Atomiswave, Neo-Geo or CPS-3 games because of lack of system power is simply idiotic.

your the one that says the home versions don't retain the same feel... I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[Des-ROW]

Your last post is so stupid, senseless and shows such a level resignation (tired of making up excuses maybe?) that I won't even answer it, mainly because I have nothing else to say, and because it is more than clear that -

1. I am completely right.

2. You are completely wrong.

It's over, seriously.

You should not continue with this, otherwise you will end up looking even more stupid.

 

[Berty]

Im quite happy to end here, i wouldn't like you to agree with me any more now would i?

fact, you agree that the home version of arcade games is not reproduced faithfully in full. There are some games that are a little different but none that are tuly faithful to the arcade.

end of story